2 John: Hate masquerading as love

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As usual, with a new book I start by looking at the wikipedia page. With respect to authorship, it says that the language is similar to 3 John so they are likely to have been written by the same person, and in fact the traditional view is that all 4 book supposedly written by John were in fact written by the same person.

The beginning and end of this book mention a lady, which are typically interpreted to mean the church. Another view is that it is addressed to a specific lady named Kyria, however that seems to not be terribly popular.

Greeting (v. 1-3)

Basically just a greeting to "the elect lady and her children", which again, according to the wikipedia page is about the church and the congregation.

Walking in Truth and Love (v. 4-11)

The most important commandment is to love one another and John is happy that he sees many people following this commandment.

This sounds pretty good. Also, from the language used here, I think it is pretty likely that the interpretation of the lady being the church and the children being the congregation makes the most sense.

Many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not preach that Christ has come in the flesh. Be careful listening to them so you don't lose your reward. Whoever is with God has both the father and the son, if anyone comes without this message, do not invite them into your house or give them any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in their wicked works.

So much for the message of spreading love. If someone disagrees with your religion, you are supposed to shun them. Terrible. It's really amazing to me that this is an obvious message of hate but it claims to be a message of love. It reminds me of people who want freedom of speech, but only for those who agree with them. We don't need to protect speech that is popular, in the same way you don't have to tell people to love those who they already love.

This should be fun, let's see how the Christian commentaries try to get out of this, obviously terrible, message. Let's start with Guzik. He starts by saying that it is not talking about shunning them altogether, but just having no religious connection to them. We should not let them speak in the church. On the other hand, he quotes Boice who points out that giving them hospitality is helping them spread their false words, and therefore we shouldn't do it. He also says that 

John means greets in a much more involved context than our own. In that culture, it meant to show hospitality and give aid.

 but then he follows it up with

Yet, for the weak or unskilled believer, it is best if they do not even greet (in the sense of speaking to) those who promote a false Jesus (like the Mormons or Jehovah’s Witnesses).

Seems that he is just trying to have it both ways.

Ray Steadman says that Christians are not supposed to simply slam the door in the face of any non-Christian, they should accept the strangers into their homes, but make the theological differences clear. This certainly sounds better, but it doesn't seem to mesh very well with the command to not even give them a greeting. He further says that if you continue to let them into your home you are endorsing their doctrine. So I guess in his mind you should help them out but only for a short time.

Gill doesn't even try to justify it. He says

their ministry should not be attended on in the church, or house of God; and they should not be entertained in private houses, and much less caressed

He goes on to say that you shouldn't even bid them God speed, going on to explain

The meaning is, that with such no familiar conversation should be had, lest any encouragement should be given them; or it should induce a suspicion in the minds of other saints, that they are in the same sentiments; or it should tend to make others think favourably of them, and be a snare and a stumbling block to weak Christians.

One more comment here, the bit about the reward. I have seen a lot of talk about morality lately, but if your entire reason for doing things is for personal reward then it isn't really about morality, just selfishness on a longer timescale.

Final Greetings (v. 12-13)

I have much to say but would rather do it in person.

Sounds good, doesn't help us though.

For the overview post (If you think I should add or remove stuff from this list please let me know, I think it would make good conversation)

Bad:

2 John 5,10-11 Love those who agree with you, hate those who don't

"love one another"

"If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works."

1 John 5: Christians don't Sin

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Overcoming the World (v. 1-5)

Everyone who believes Jesus is the Christ is born of God.
Everyone who loves the father loves whoever is born of Christ.
Therefore, anyone who loves God and obeys his commandments loves the children of God.

Well, if you believe the 2 premises the conclusion logically follows. It seems to say that everyone who loves God also loves all Christians. This is simply not born out in reality, there are certainly different groups of Christians that hate each other.

God's commandments are not burdensome.

Depending on which commandments you are talking about, I would argue that this isn't true. The kosher laws certainly do seem to be a pain in the ass. If we want to look at the 10 commandments, what about the fact that we aren't supposed to covet? That is not only a burden, I would argue it is impossible. If my neighbor has better stuff than I do, how can I help that I wish I had better stuff as well?

I don't want to go into the details on this one, but I looked at Guzik's take here, he starts with the following statement "Some Christians feel very burdened by the commandments of God, yet John insists that they are not burdensome." He then continues on for 4 paragraph explaining how it is not burdensome if you love God enough.

Everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world, this is a victory of our faith.

I'm not exactly sure what overcoming the world means. Given that 'the world' is often talked of as the source of all evil, I'm guessing that overcoming the world has to do with being 'Godly' while being surrounded by worldly things. It is absolutely silly to say that every Christian succeeds in this. Furthermore, even if I'm misunderstanding what 'overcoming the world' means, it is still an outrageous statement, no matter what, there are some Christians out there who will have failed. Unless of course you throw in a no true Scotsman fallacy.

Guzik says "The idea that anything born of God could be defeated by this world was strange to John and it should be strange to us." Whether or not it is strange, it seems to happen.

Testimony Concerning the Son of God (v. 6-12)

Jesus came not just in water but also in blood, and the spirit testifies that this is the truth.

I'm not sure what this means exactly, but him coming in blood I'm guessing is referring to the fact that he came physically, and not just spiritually.

"Through the centuries, there have been many different ideas about exactly what John meant by this phrase. “This is the most perplexing passage in the Epistle and one of the most perplexing in the New Testament.” (Plummer, cited in Boice)" At least I'm not alone :)

The testimony of god is greater than the testimony of men.

But where is the testimony of God? Even the bible is written by men, and not by God, so at best this testimony is second hand. Furthermore, just yesterday we learned that no one has ever seen God, so how can I be expected to trust them that they are giving me testimony from God?

Whoever does not believe in the testimony from God concerning Jesus is a liar.

This actually kinda pisses me off. It's one thing to say I'm wrong, I don't have a problem with that, but to call me a liar is bullshit. To call me a liar here implies that I in fact know that Jesus is real, but I am intentionally suppressing that knowledge. That is wrong, I do not believe in Jesus, no part of me deep down believes in Jesus. This type of thinking is the height of arrogance, they are so sure their position is correct, they think everyone else knows it is correct and they are all lying to themselves. I see this kind of crap regularly from Christians, it's ridiculous. 

After looking at a few commentaries, it appears that it is not saying you are a liar, but that you are calling God a liar. I am going to just say this translation is shit, I parsed the pronouns incorrectly, Gill points out that another translation says "hath made God himself a liar" instead of "Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar". Fair enough, so instead of John calling me a liar, he says I'm calling God a liar. Although I guess he's talking about Jews of the time, and I guess they were saying John was wrong, and he retaliated by calling them liars.

That You May Know (v. 13-21)

If we ask anything of Jesus he will hear it.

I find it interesting that he doesn't go as far as saying that he will grant it, just that he will hear it. Seems to be a touch of backpedaling from what was written before.

If you see a brother committing a sin that doesn't lead to death, ask God to give him life. Some sins lead to death, we shouldn't pray for that.

If the sin doesn't lead to death, why do we need to ask God to give life? As for the sins leading to death, why are we saying not to pray for that? Is there an expectation that we would pray for those sins? The wording is confusing. In fact, this whole chapter uses pronouns poorly, it is hard to tell what is really meant.

Everyone born of God does not keep on sinning.

Again, it says that Christians don't sin.

The whole world lies in the power of the evil one.

Why would an omnipotent God allow such a thing?

For the overview post (If you think I should add or remove stuff from this list please let me know, I think it would make good conversation)

Bad:

1 John 5:10 If you don't believe in Jesus you make God a liar

"...Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son."

1 John 5:18 Christians don't sin

"We know that everyone who has been born of God does not keep on sinning, but he who was born of God protects him, and the evil one does not touch him."

1 John 5:19 Satan has power over the whole world

"We know that we are from God, and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."

Christmas Vacation

Hey Everybody

I'm flying out to visit my in-laws today, and we'll be there for a few weeks. I've front loaded enough posts to finish through Jude, it seemed like a good stopping point, when I get back home I'll pick things back up with Revelations, that should be fun. I may or may not be writing other posts while I'm there, it just depends on what else is going on and whether or not I feel like writing.

I hope everyone has a fun holiday season, see you on the other side.

1 John 4: Love Casts Out Fear

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Test the Spirits (v. 1-6)

There are many spirits out there, you need to test them to see which are from God. Every spirit that confesses Jesus has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not is not from God.

First, I thought we were not supposed to test God, 

Luke 4:12 And Jesus answered him, "It is said, 'You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

okay, I know this is a spirit from God, and not God or Jesus directly, but it feels the same to me. Think of it from the perspective of a random guy, he needs to decide who to believe. Some dude claims to be Jesus, he is not allowed to test Jesus because that is testing God and not allowed. Of course there are false prophets, so if a false prophet claims to be Jesus our random guy is just fucked because if his first thought is that it might be Jesus, he is not allowed to test him. But if it is a spirit, he is supposed to test him? It just seems inconsistent to me.

Second thought, this seems like a pretty easy test for an impostor spirit to pass. All he has to do is claim that Jesus came in the flesh, then he can tell you anything else he wants. We better hope none of those spirits ever get their ethereal hands on a bible.

God Is Love (v. 7-21)

Anyone who loves was born of God, and anyone who does not love does not know God.

I love my wife, does that mean I know God?

Guzik says that every display of love doesn't have to be from a Christian, but our capacity to love comes from God because we were created in his image.

v18 "There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love."

But I thought God wanted us to fear him. For example, recently in 1 Peter 1 we saw that God wants to rule us through fear. If you want more examples, a quick google search reveals many examples.

Now, this is an item for my summary, as I want to be able to reference it later to put as contrast to other verses which say fear is a good thing, but do I count this item as good? I don't think it's good, love doesn't cast out fear, you can love something and still have fear in regards to it, for example, you could love someone and be afraid for their safety. Ask any parent whose kid is doing something dangerous. If anything, there is an argument that this would be bad, as it might make people think they don't really have love as they still have fear. I think I'll just put it as "interesting"

Guzik has an explanation for this, which I want to quote here

What about the many passages of Scripture, Old and New Testament (such as Ecclesiastes 12:13 and 1 Peter 2:17), which tell us we should fear God? The fear John writes of here is not the appropriate reverence we should all have of God, but the kind of fear which involves torment - that agonizing kind of fear which robs our soul of all joy and confidence before God. It is the fear that is the opposite of boldness in the day of judgment.

Basically, his explanation is that we are talking about different kinds of fear, this is a translation issue. So I decided to take a look at the lexicon. The current verse (1 John 4:18) uses phobos, which is "panic, flight, fear, the causing of fear, terror". This is the kind of fear we should not have according to Guzik's interpretation. If we look at 1 Peter 2:17 we get phobeisthe, which is "to put to flight, to terrify, frighten", which doesn't read as that much different to me. And wouldn't you know, it also says that the origin of phobeisthe is phobos, I think there is a pretty good argument that we are talking about the same kind of fear. 

[note: added after I recorded the podcast as I noticed this during recording]

v12 "No one has ever seen God..."

This seems like a pretty obvious contradiction, my understanding is that Moses talked to God, didn't God tell him what to write for the part of the old testament that he wrote? And certainly Moses talked to God when he went up the mountain to get the 10 commandments, right?

Guzik claims that no one has seen God because he is invisible. He then addresses the complaint I had with the following quote from Boice:

The Old Testament theophanies, including the apparently contradictory statement in Exodus 24:10, did not involve the full revelation of God as He is in Himself but only a suggestion of what He is in forms that a human being could understand.

Basically, the claim is that anywhere it says they saw God, they didn't really see God, they saw the avatar of God which isn't quite the same as seeing God. This is utter nonsense as far as I am concerned. The bible says plainly that they saw God, not that they saw a facsimile of God, but they saw God. If you want to say that they thought they saw the real God but they didn't actually see God, fine, but you have to admit that you are just making stuff up to reconcile some obviously contradictory verses. Otherwise, cite an actual source.


For the overview post (If you think I should add or remove stuff from this list please let me know, I think it would make good conversation)

Good:

1 John 4:1 Don't believe everything you hear

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world."

Interesting

1 John 4:18 Love casts out fear

"There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and whoever fears has not been perfected in love."

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God

"No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us."

How Does Jesus Treat His Enemies?

This comic is inspired by Hebrews 10 and Hebrews 1, both of which mention Jesus using his enemies as a footstool. What a loving, merciful God he is.

Mental Health and Gun Control

Yesterday was a terrible, terrible day. I usually don't write about stuff like this, but this particular event has really gotten to me. The fact that so many of the victims are 5 years old is just making it impossible for me to put it out of my mind. We would like to live in a world where these kinds of things don't happen, barring that, we would like to reduce the incidence as much as possible. As far as I can tell, there are two ways we can work toward this goal, gun control, and better overall mental health.

Let's start with gun control, as for me, it is the first thing that comes to mind. I am of the opinion that fewer guns is better. The harder it is to get a gun, the more difficult it will be for people to get their hands on guns, and therefore the harder it will be for things like this to happen. Some people might argue that the kind of people who want to shoot up a school will get their hands on guns anyway. That might be true, I don't know, I bet for some people this would be true, for others maybe more difficulty in acquiring firearms would stop one of these tragedies.

Some would argue that if everyone had a gun, this kind of thing wouldn't happen because the potential shooter would know that they would get quickly taken down. This argument seems completely silly to me. How many shots could the person get off before you could process what was going on, get out your gun, and shoot him back? I'm guessing quite a few...unless you are constantly at the ready to pull your gun out and start shooting a potential maniac. But if people all over the place have that mentality, how many accidents are we going to have? This seems like no solution to me. But regardless of your position, this is a conversation we need to be having, as John Stewart recently pointed out, the people who like their guns seem to want to stifle this conversation altogether. That is just unacceptable.

The Daily Show with Jon Stewart
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But my thinking here really does go toward preventing these types of things from happening. And we do live in reality, even if we had extremely strict gun control laws, people who really want guns could probably get their hands on them given how many are out there already. Furthermore, even if I could snap my fingers and make all of the guns in the world disappear (I would do this in a second if I could, btw) tragedies like this could still happen. So what can we do?

We need to be better as a nation with mental health issues. For a great many people in this country, simply going to a therapist is looked down upon. This stigma needs to go away. People should be applauded for working through their issues, not denigrated for it. I think everyone should go to a therapist occasionally, just to work things out a bit. Like an annual check up kind of thing. Just a normal part of life, everyone has issues, everyone would benefit from such a thing. A lot of people should probably go monthly or weekly, but if everyone else went on occasion and could understand the benefits, maybe they wouldn't look down so much on others who go more often.

Now I'm not trying to say that this particular shooter was mentally ill, I'm not going to say he had any particular condition or that he should have been medicated. Those things might be true, but I'm not sure if there is any way for us to know. But I would be a lot of money that he could have used someone to talk to. And I think there is a very real possibility that if he had gone to counseling, one way or another it would have led to a different result than him shooting up an elementary school. And as much as I hate guns (and I am in favor of gun control laws), getting more people into counseling seems like it would be a much more effective solution than gun control.

1 John 3: Hate and Murder are the same

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Children of God [cont.] (v. 1-10)

We are children of God and we shall be like Jesus because Jesus is pure and we purify ourselves in him. If you sin you are with the devil, if you know Jesus you will not keep on sinning. By this is it evident who is of God and who is of the devil.

Didn't we just learn in 1 John 1 that we are all sinners? That anyone who says they are not a sinner is a liar? Now this says that if you are with God you are no longer a sinner. It follows logically that no one is with God.

Guzik tries to explain this with grammar. He argues that in 1 John the grammar indicates occasional acts of sin, whereas the grammar here indicates living a life of sin. Let's examine this, for the verse here, it says "keeps on sinning", I suppose this could go either way, but it feels to me like it is saying that there is never a point in which you stop sinning altogether. What does it mean to say no one who abides in Jesus keeps on sinning? It sounds to me like it is saying once you are with Jesus you never sin again. What about 1 John 1:8? It says "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." I suppose his argument works here, if everyone has a little sin now and then, then they can't say they have no sin. Given the source material, I think he has done the best that can be done, but it looks to me that we have contradictory messages here. I guess you just have to judge for yourself.

Jamieson, Fausset & Brown say that we are talking about the ideal of a Christian. They say "Not that 'whosoever is betrayed into sins has never seen nor known God'; but in so far as sin exists, in that degree the spiritual intuition and knowledge of God do not exist in him." So their argument is that as far as you sin, that much you don't know God. As far as I read it, this goes pretty contrary to what the actual book says. Furthermore, we have seen plenty of times in the bible where all sins are equated, if you lie you deserve hell just as much as if you murdered. With this in mind, I think this way to justify the verse falls flat.

Love One Another (v. 11-24)

You should love your brother, not hate him. Cain hated Abel because his deeds were righteous so he killed him. Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer.

Whoa, let's stop right there. Hate and murder are the same thing? I know you are making a Cain and Abel analogy here, but hate and murder are quite far apart.

Here is Guzik's take on this: "To hate our brother is to murder him in our hearts. Though we may not carry out the action (through cowardice or fear of punishment), we wish that person dead. Or, by ignoring another person, we may treat them as if they were dead. Hatred can be shown passively or actively." I could not disagree with this more, and honestly, the fact that he would read this passage and then have this take-away demonstrates the negative impact reading the bible could have on someone who is so invested in it being correct. I've hated people, I've never wanted to kill anyone, to say that I have murdered someone in my heart is absolutely ludicrous. To imply that I have only not killed those people because I am a coward or that I fear punishment is also quite silly.

v13 "Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you."

Persecution complex once again.

Both Guzik and Jamieson, Fausset & Brown take this as a given.

Jesus laid his life down for us, we should be willing to do the same for our brothers. If you have worldly goods and are able to help someone out who is in need, and you refuse, how is it possible that God's love abides in your heart. Don't just talk about loving your brothers, let your deeds speak for you.

You should help people out who are in need, this I can get behind.

Sometimes your heart might condemn you, but God is greater than your heart. If you keep the commandment to believe in Jesus, then God is in you.

Had a bit of trouble summarizing that paragraph, but basically it seems to be saying that you might sometimes want things that you are not supposed to want, but with God you can overcome your impulses.

Guzik says that "our heart condemns us before God" is about us feeling like we aren't really worthy of God, and the part about God being greater than our hearts is that we shouldn't take those feelings too seriously, because God is with us even though we have those feelings.

If we keep God happy with us, he will give us whatever we ask for.

We are back to faith I guess, this is basically the thing that Jesus talked about, if you really believe then you can move a mountain with a prayer. What nonsense. But even if we assume that moving a mountain is hyperbolic talk from Jesus, here we are still saying that we can get whatever we want if we really believe. I would argue there are plenty of believers who have cancer and really believe that prayer will heal them, and yet God doesn't cure their cancer.

For the overview post (If you think I should add or remove stuff from this list please let me know, I think it would make good conversation)

Good:

1 John 3:17 Love each other and help those in need

"But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?"

1 John 3:18 Talk is cheap, show love with your actions

"Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth."


Bad:

1 John 3:6 If you sin you can't be with God

"No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him."

1 John 3:13 Persecution complex

"Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you."

1 John 3:15 Murder and hate are the same

"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

1 John 3:22 God will give us whatever we ask for

"and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him"